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	<title>Comments on: The Lobbyist Lie</title>
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	<link>http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/2008/12/26/the-lobbyist-lie/</link>
	<description>Good Analysis, Bad Grammar</description>
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		<title>By: TruePath</title>
		<link>http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/2008/12/26/the-lobbyist-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-2512</link>
		<dc:creator>TruePath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 04:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/?p=467#comment-2512</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There are two problems with this argument.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;First, most americans have cable so any law that didn&#039;t bar advertising on cable would be ineffective.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Secondly, you can&#039;t avoid the first amendment via sophistry.  I mean try the following argument on for size.  The outdoor air above the United States is the common property of the US government (just declare it exactly the same way we declared the government owns the airwaves).  Therefore the government can regulate vibrations in that air as it sees fit the first amendment not withstanding.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;hr /&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Or to put it more formally even though the government owns the airwaves the speech crossing them is not government speech and the first amendment still requires the government treat that speech in a content neutral fashion.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are two problems with this argument.</p>
<p>First, most americans have cable so any law that didn&#8217;t bar advertising on cable would be ineffective.</p>
<p>Secondly, you can&#8217;t avoid the first amendment via sophistry.  I mean try the following argument on for size.  The outdoor air above the United States is the common property of the US government (just declare it exactly the same way we declared the government owns the airwaves).  Therefore the government can regulate vibrations in that air as it sees fit the first amendment not withstanding.</p>
<hr />
<p>Or to put it more formally even though the government owns the airwaves the speech crossing them is not government speech and the first amendment still requires the government treat that speech in a content neutral fashion.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/2008/12/26/the-lobbyist-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-1885</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/?p=467#comment-1885</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t think it&#039;s unconstitutional at all. The airwaves are public property owned by the state. It can make rules banning private expression on those airwaves. I agree, it will be a moot point in the near future, with the takeover of cable, satellite, and internet, but had this been in effect for the past 50 years our political culture would be very different today, I think for the better!&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s unconstitutional at all. The airwaves are public property owned by the state. It can make rules banning private expression on those airwaves. I agree, it will be a moot point in the near future, with the takeover of cable, satellite, and internet, but had this been in effect for the past 50 years our political culture would be very different today, I think for the better!</p>
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		<title>By: TruePath</title>
		<link>http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/2008/12/26/the-lobbyist-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-1842</link>
		<dc:creator>TruePath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:50:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/?p=467#comment-1842</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, banning TV ads would &quot;decrease the political corruption &lt;em&gt;from money&lt;/em&gt;&quot; or I would say the influence of money on elections.  The question is whether monetary corruption is better or worse than the alternative kinds of corruption that might replace it.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I would rather have the open influence of money than say a system of undocumented influence by union leaders, activists groups and anyone else able to deliver organizational help.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Also I worry that this would effectively give whoever controls TV news programs total control over elections.  Canidates won&#039;t even be able to choose which issues to raise or contest the frame provided by the media.  If there was some strong protection that would ensure that journalists weren&#039;t pressured by the owners I would be more sympathetic but if monetary donations corrupt the possibility to win the election by influencing Ted Turner is worse.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;hr /&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Also it&#039;s blatantly unconstitutional not to mention that it will become totally unworkable in a few years when most of our video entertainment comes from the internet.  I mean is the video I made and posted to my blog television?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, banning TV ads would &#8220;decrease the political corruption <em>from money</em>&#8221; or I would say the influence of money on elections.  The question is whether monetary corruption is better or worse than the alternative kinds of corruption that might replace it.</p>
<p>I would rather have the open influence of money than say a system of undocumented influence by union leaders, activists groups and anyone else able to deliver organizational help.</p>
<p>Also I worry that this would effectively give whoever controls TV news programs total control over elections.  Canidates won&#8217;t even be able to choose which issues to raise or contest the frame provided by the media.  If there was some strong protection that would ensure that journalists weren&#8217;t pressured by the owners I would be more sympathetic but if monetary donations corrupt the possibility to win the election by influencing Ted Turner is worse.</p>
<hr />
<p>Also it&#8217;s blatantly unconstitutional not to mention that it will become totally unworkable in a few years when most of our video entertainment comes from the internet.  I mean is the video I made and posted to my blog television?</p>
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		<title>By: TruePath</title>
		<link>http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/2008/12/26/the-lobbyist-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-1841</link>
		<dc:creator>TruePath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/?p=467#comment-1841</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ohh yes, I&#039;ve been pushing for the state elections only thing for a long time.  I mean the Framers were totally on the right track with the whole electoral college and election by state legislature but they just made two small screwups.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Firstly, the electoral college should have consisted of the governers plus maybe the leaders of the legislature of the state so they couldn&#039;t become mere proxies for the canidate.  Secondly, they were insufficently specific about the manner for state legislatures to elect senators so these legislatures could end up not appointing anyone for long contentious periods.  What they should have done is to mandate a particular type of voting (ranked choice or a multiple round system with eliminations each round) so that deadlocks would be impossible.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m undecided about bringing things all the way down to the city level because from what I&#039;ve seen of city government it is so inconsequential and easy that people don&#039;t give really weigh the canidates ability very much and media can&#039;t cover the canidates effectively.  Thus making city officials elect the national ones would likely just turn the city officials into what the electoral college is today.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ohh yes, I&#8217;ve been pushing for the state elections only thing for a long time.  I mean the Framers were totally on the right track with the whole electoral college and election by state legislature but they just made two small screwups.</p>
<p>Firstly, the electoral college should have consisted of the governers plus maybe the leaders of the legislature of the state so they couldn&#8217;t become mere proxies for the canidate.  Secondly, they were insufficently specific about the manner for state legislatures to elect senators so these legislatures could end up not appointing anyone for long contentious periods.  What they should have done is to mandate a particular type of voting (ranked choice or a multiple round system with eliminations each round) so that deadlocks would be impossible.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m undecided about bringing things all the way down to the city level because from what I&#8217;ve seen of city government it is so inconsequential and easy that people don&#8217;t give really weigh the canidates ability very much and media can&#8217;t cover the canidates effectively.  Thus making city officials elect the national ones would likely just turn the city officials into what the electoral college is today.</p>
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		<title>By: TruePath</title>
		<link>http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/2008/12/26/the-lobbyist-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-1840</link>
		<dc:creator>TruePath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/?p=467#comment-1840</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Because I thought it looked nice.  The normal post font doesn&#039;t look as good in the little box and I wanted to use something different.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because I thought it looked nice.  The normal post font doesn&#8217;t look as good in the little box and I wanted to use something different.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/2008/12/26/the-lobbyist-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-1517</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 02:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/?p=467#comment-1517</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Also, why does my reply come out written in silly font? It makes it look so much less authoritative than your post. Hmp.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, why does my reply come out written in silly font? It makes it look so much less authoritative than your post. Hmp.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/2008/12/26/the-lobbyist-lie/comment-page-1/#comment-1515</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 02:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.infiniteinjury.org/blog/?p=467#comment-1515</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree that there is no way to force the removal of money from politics. My preferred solution is to ban political advertising on television. Where does all that money go? While a lot goes to fund ground campaigns, a HUGE amount goes straight into TV ads. Eliminate the ads, eliminate the need for massive campaign funding. I contend that this would both decrease political corruption from money and level the playing field. Huge amounts of money in a campaign wouldn&#039;t necessarily help if there&#039;s nothing to do with it!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;More radically, I think we should only have local elections; ie elect only people the average citizen could actually interact with on a personal basis. This would have a few benefits. First off, people would start to care about their local government, which is kinda important in daily life. Currently, most people don&#039;t know who their assembly reps are or the county controller. These people have a lot of day-to-day power and face ridiculously little scrutiny. Second, it would decrease the centralization of money-based corruption. No more big national campaigns. Third, it would get people involved in government directly. Suddenly, your vote does count because you are voting in a small pool. Also, your vote appears to count (unlike now) because it&#039;s not all about the giant national race.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Assuming neither of these things happen -- which they won&#039;t -- I don&#039;t have a huge problem with lobbyists. As long as they are the right lobbyists!&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that there is no way to force the removal of money from politics. My preferred solution is to ban political advertising on television. Where does all that money go? While a lot goes to fund ground campaigns, a HUGE amount goes straight into TV ads. Eliminate the ads, eliminate the need for massive campaign funding. I contend that this would both decrease political corruption from money and level the playing field. Huge amounts of money in a campaign wouldn&#8217;t necessarily help if there&#8217;s nothing to do with it!</p>
<p>More radically, I think we should only have local elections; ie elect only people the average citizen could actually interact with on a personal basis. This would have a few benefits. First off, people would start to care about their local government, which is kinda important in daily life. Currently, most people don&#8217;t know who their assembly reps are or the county controller. These people have a lot of day-to-day power and face ridiculously little scrutiny. Second, it would decrease the centralization of money-based corruption. No more big national campaigns. Third, it would get people involved in government directly. Suddenly, your vote does count because you are voting in a small pool. Also, your vote appears to count (unlike now) because it&#8217;s not all about the giant national race.</p>
<p>Assuming neither of these things happen &#8212; which they won&#8217;t &#8212; I don&#8217;t have a huge problem with lobbyists. As long as they are the right lobbyists!</p>
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